In this episode of ToiletTalk, we explore the essential gear for building and growing your portable restroom rental business—from choosing the right porta potty pump truck to optimizing your mix of construction and event toilets. Our guests from FlowMark and Caribou Services offer insights on avoiding common equipment pitfalls, understanding how tariffs might affect costs, and making smart financing or leasing decisions. You’ll learn valuable maintenance strategies and discover how to keep your fleet profitable for the long haul. 

Transcript:

Matt A: What’s up guys? In this episode we sit down with FlowMark and Caribou Services to talk about equipment for pros. And since it’s the hottest topic right now, we’re going to talk about tariffs and how they affect the portable sanitation industry. Let’s jump in.

Matt A: So let’s start with the basics. Scott, can you tell us like what are the different types and kinds of portable restroom rental trucks and just kind of go over that, you know, from start to growing a fleet?

Scott: Sure. Basically, there’s several different designs that we do on a standard basis. Starting with the smallest is a 999—that’s a 699 waste and a 300 fresh. The second size up is a 1275, which is a 900 waste and 375 freshwater. Next up is a 1500, which is 1100 waste and 400 fresh. Then there’s a 2000 gallon—1500 waste and 500 fresh.

We do some pickup and delivery units as well, which have the tank behind the cab—an 800 gallon tank and then a flatbed for toilets. Generally, that tank size is pretty standard. We do smaller versions and larger versions based on longer beds. In between all those different sizes, we do a lot of custom tank sizes. If a customer requests a different split or a certain size based on their needs or requirements in their area, we’ll do that too. There’s really not something we won’t do, as long as we can build it.

We have a few customers who do emergency response that rarely require a much larger tank with a portable toilet-type setup—up to 4000 gallons, obviously on a significantly larger truck. We also offer a unique pipeline combo tank, which looks like a portable toilet tank but has a septic inlet and rear manway on the back. A million different configurations—having that ability to customize is key. Some builders stick to a cookie-cutter tank, but we have state-of-the-art engineering that allows us to do many different styles.

Matt A: What is the most common size that you sell a truck?

Scott: I’d say the two most common are the 1275, which goes on your standard RAM 5500, F550, or similar CVs like the Chevy 5500s. That’s probably the most common size. Though as the years and businesses change, the 2000 gallons are very popular right now. That’s just under CDL—on any chassis under 26,000 GVW. I’d say those are the two most common. On the West Coast, we see a lot of 999s due to standard tanker endorsements. Every state has different requirements for tanker endorsements and CDL classification, and there are daily debates about it online. But yeah, 1275 and 2000 gallon trucks are our most common for sure.

Matt A: Chris, let’s talk toilets. If you’re just starting out, what are the different types of toilets in this industry?

Chris: You’ve got multiple brands out there to pick from—whatever suits your fancy. There’s your regular static unit, which is your basic portable toilet. Then you’ve got your “handicap” unit—which technically isn’t ADA, but that’s what the industry calls it—and then actual ADA-sized units.

Then you get into specialty stuff: foot-pedal flush, hand flush, inside hand sinks, the more luxury-type options. Then obviously restroom trailers, and now we’re seeing pod units growing in popularity, especially in overseas markets.

Right now in Michigan, especially after a major ice storm we had recently, we’re seeing lots of trailer or pod-type units used as bunkhouses in lineman camps up north. So there’s a wide range of items to suit any market.

Matt A: What about for someone who is starting out and wants to have the most versatile truck and toilets? I’ll start on the truck side. Scott, what’s the most versatile truck that someone should get started with?

Scott: Starting out—if we’re talking about a business from the ground up—I think it’s important to start with a slide-in tank. Start building routes, your customer base, and grow naturally before jumping into big equipment. As a truck builder, we’ll say “buy new,” and in many cases, that’s true—you don’t want to sink money into used equipment that breaks down. But a new truck and loan payment is scary—you’ve got to be sure you have the income to cover it.

So I think naturally progressing: slide-in, to a small toilet truck, to a fleet. Partnering with companies—for toilet service, route planning, trucks—is really important. This industry is eager to help. Everyone wants to see each other succeed. Get to the point where you can buy new trucks, standardize your fleet, and grow efficiently—without overextending or buying junk that breaks down. Slide-ins are a great place to start.

Matt A: On the toilet side, Chris, if you’re starting out, I would guess most pros will be renting to construction sites as the bread and butter of the business. What’s a good mix of toilets to start out with?

Chris: I started my very first original company with two old used fiberglass units. This day and age, however, nobody really wants to see those anymore. So, if you are looking at it from a financial standpoint, hopefully, you have done your market research. You know what your competition is. You got a pretty decent handle on what your profit margin is.

So if you are gearing towards the construction side of the market, you have to ask yourself, am I in a large, populated area where they’re going to build a huge shopping complex or whatever? It’s going to be a union-type job. So, if I’m going to be looking at that, I’m probably going to be looking towards some used units that I don’t have to pay a lot of money for because I know by the end of the job, I’m probably going to throw a bunch of those away.

And so if you’re new looking to get into this market, hopefully, you’re talking to other pros, you’re doing your research to find out that when it comes to a union-type job, you’re going to want something that is quote-unquote, disposable. So you’re going to be looking at some of that.

But at the end of the day, the toilet industry has drastically changed in my lifetime. It is a customer service show-type industry. So you’re going to really want to step up and buy some nicer equipment. Now, is it really feasibly cost-wise to step out and buy some really nice high-end used units? Maybe if you walk into the right deal versus buying new, but you’re going to need a mix of that. And I guess it all depends on what kind of structure you’re looking at to get started with financially as to what you would look at.

But you don’t want to realistically ever just go, “Hey, I’m going to start this unit or this company with these used units and that’s where I’m going to go.” You’re going to find out real quick—you’re going to go backwards. And no one wants to go backwards. So let’s not—let’s avoid that mishap.

Matt A: Still sticking with the folks that are more getting started—Scott, what about financing options for someone that, you know, hey, they’re just starting this business out, they’re buying some toilets, and they need that slide-in unit or whatnot. What does FlowMark do as far as financing options for folks?

Scott: We have just started—we’re actually producing slide-in tanks now. That was something we haven’t done just because production or schedule just didn’t allow us to get into that product line. So we are actually doing those now.

One thing we do for a lot of our customers is when we are talking about a truck or equipment, we’re talking about who are you partnered with in lending? Do you have a relationship with the bank? Things like that. For just starting out, that’s a little trickier because you need time in business. Will the person personally guarantee the loan? Things like that.

We have an in-house financing department that deals with all different types of credit, including new customers. We have a couple of partnered lenders that specialize in new businesses and really allow us to offer a range of financing and leasing products. We have a specific person that deals with that here. She’s great to deal with, and it makes it really easy seeing what’s out there.

We also encourage people to check with your local banks—who you have your relationship with. If you’ve banked with a bank personally for 10 years and you’re starting your business, open your business bank account there. Those are all relationships that mean something. Generally, equipment financing companies have a little bit better rates because they understand the product better than traditional banks.

But that doesn’t mean you can’t get a great rate through your local bank and find an option somewhere. There are also even ones that are a little more intense to deal with. They’re higher interest rates, a lot of money down—but those are sometimes sacrifices to really get to that next step with new equipment or a couple of units at one time, based off a contract or something like that.

We saw a lot of that during COVID where people had the opportunity for massive contracts, but they knew they couldn’t fulfill the contracts without the equipment to do it. So those were things where, at the time, banks—and kind of like what we’re in now where money’s expensive to borrow—pushed back on credit requirements. But we partner with many different lenders that can usually take care of everybody in one way or another.

Matt A: Chris, you mentioned some of the pitfalls being, you know, if someone’s starting out, they’re going with used equipment. Since you mentioned that you’re 100 years old and started out with fiberglass units, could you share with the audience some of the common mistakes that pros make when starting out as it pertains to choosing their equipment?

Chris: So, I have seen over the years, companies come and go. I’ve seen some that just step out like, “Hey, I’m going to grab this thing by the horns. I’m going to set this world on fire and that’s the way it’s going to be.” So they’ve stepped out, bought a lot of, or almost brand new equipment. And then they find out that, oh man, portable toilets are not a get-rich-quick scheme.

I’ve seen it time and time again. Then there’s guys that are just sitting there waiting to pick that almost brand new equipment up from them for pennies on the dollar. So they’re left holding the bag on what they spent versus where they’re going.

The other thing I’ve seen is people not doing market research, buying a competitor or another company looking to get into this. “Hey, this is just what I want to do and this guy’s for sale.” So they step out, they buy this company, acquire all these assets, and don’t really understand the business and what they’re buying completely. They buy a whole bunch of very old equipment that’s worn out, outdated, hard to get parts for, etc. Now all of a sudden, the business is thriving and it’s growing and they need some new equipment, but their trucks are always breaking down. Where do I go rent a truck from? How can I get this done? I gotta call and rely on a competitor or beg to rent one of their trucks.

So now they have a lot full of old used equipment sitting there that they’ve paid a lot of money for or they’re still paying for. And they’ve put themselves out there and financially don’t have the ability to grow because of what they invested in. I’ve seen both of those scenarios a lot.

The biggest thing—I’ll say it time and time again—you’ve got to do your market research to know what is the best option. And like with Scott, they’re offering slide-in units now. I used to look at some of these operators and go, why would you invest in a slide-in unit if you’re running this truck yourself and you’re servicing 200 toilets a week?

That’s what my company has—200 toilets—and I’ve got to service them, you know, so many of them a day. Why would you invest into that? But the proper business model can be a great thing. I actually visited a woman-owned and run company last year, and she uses strictly all slide-in units. For my size company, slide-in units, OK, I mean I’d take that if I had one tip over 40 miles away or something. But for her, she could buy a very nice sized slide-in unit, and if something happened to one of her trucks, she had the ability to quickly unbolt that, swap it over to another truck, and go right back to work.

So, we don’t always think about how viable some of these things are and how things have changed. I know Scott could tell you how much the truck world has changed in the last 5 years from what it was. So it all comes back to doing your market research. Figure out what you’re targeting and where your money is best spent.

Yeah, are there some good, viable options used? Absolutely, there sure are. But you have to make sure that it’s right for you, your company, and your business plan. Or do you step out and you buy new? You know, Scott had just talked about financing. I dealt with a company just a while back that had gotten started just a few years ago. They couldn’t afford to buy a complete off-the-line, brand new pump truck ready to go. But what they could do is obtain financing from, say, Ram or Ford or whatever they chose, and then they were able to get their hands on a slide-in unit. It was affordable for them.

So they were able to get started that way, even though it’s not something I would do in our company. But that was what they could afford and that suited their business plan. So there’s many options out there, many different things, but your research will tell you exactly what kind of options you should be looking at for your business.

Matt A: Well said. I think the key takeaway there is a solid business plan, because if you know that you’re going to go after construction and events, well then you should align your business plan and equipment toward that. If you know you’re going to go after something else, then it would be different. But I think that’s really well said, Chris.

So switching gears a little bit here and moving on to someone that maybe went through the slide-in and now they’ve outgrown them. Their business is starting to pick up. Their business plan said, “Okay, we’re going to get this much business before we go somewhere else and buy some bigger units.” But Scott, what should these operators keep in mind when transitioning from something like a slide-in to stepping up to something like a pump truck?

Scott: I definitely think diving in is key. One thing I’ll do with my customers—whether it’s a new customer or an early-on customer—is, we’ll dive into your business. How many toilets do you have? How many toilets are you servicing? What’s your standard route like? How many drivers do you have? We’ll go deep into that and figure out what the best option is for you.

I think when you’re transitioning from a slide-in, it’s always smart to have that extra truck—have that backup truck. One thing we started building in the fall was roll-offs. We debuted the septic version at the WET Show, but we’re also doing a portable toilet roll-off. What that’s designed for is to go between the roll-off business and the toilet business. So you have an in-between truck or you can be able to do both.

And I think, getting back to what you asked, it’s really about seeing how you’re going to grow. Are you going to get into roll-offs? Are you going to go into septic? What are you going to continue to do or grow into? That determines what type of truck is the best bet.

If you’re coming from a slide-in and you’re telling me, “Oh, I’m going to grow rapidly. I’ve got contracts coming. I’m going to do some septic stuff too, maybe grease,” then it’s probably not smart to talk to that person about another smaller truck. You’re probably wanting to go into something like a 1500 or 2000 gallon, where you’re still under CDL in most states.

So really, it’s about figuring out their plans. I think naturally, the progression is to keep going up in sizes—1275 into a pickup and delivery unit. Do you need to be able to service and drop? Carry 6 toilets? We build a pickup and delivery unit that can do a 20-foot bed. That’s a big truck.

It’s hard, especially today—you can hop on social media and see a hundred different products. Your mind starts going crazy. “Maybe I need this truck. Maybe I need that truck.” Then you get away from the plan or how you thought you’d build the business. And with all the Facebook groups in our industry and the great relationships people have at shows, you get to experience all of that with them—how they grow, what’s worked and what hasn’t.

So we really just dive into their business and see what their growth plan is. Ultimately, what’s your game plan? Do you want to grow this business and pass it down to the next generation? Or are you building a fleet to sell this company to a bigger box company?

When you’re looking at those things—are we doing custom trucks? Are we doing standard trucks?—we know in our industry what those big box retailers look for if you’re trying to build your business to sell.

Now, if you want custom stuff, you’re the end user driving the truck. You put a little more effort into it. You get some customization, things you need or like on a truck. I think the key is knowing your path before you start. Many people get started and then just go in a hundred different directions. That’s generally when things start to get a little crazy, and it becomes harder to get back to what the path is and what they’re looking to do.

Matt A: Let’s talk fleet maintenance. Chris, I know you guys have had an arc from when you were smaller to where you are today. How have you approached it? Can you give us that arc—what was fleet maintenance like in the beginning and what’s it like now?

Chris: Yeah, fleet maintenance. The guy that drove the truck was the guy that changed the oil and the flat tires. Like I said, this industry has changed so drastically, so fast. A lot of operators are still mom-and-pops in this industry, so a lot of them still have the capabilities to do a lot of the work themselves. Others—nope, they take everything into a shop.

For us, we’re around 5,200 toilets, give or take. In our southern locations, we actually have a contract with an outside company that sends a mechanic to each location a day a week or so. Now, my stuff up here in the north, I’ve got a very good relationship with a reputable shop just six or seven miles away, so we bring our trucks there.

What I’ve found to be very cost-effective and economical for us—and we’ve grown this model quite a bit—is when I approached them, I said, “Look, I’ll bring you 100% of my work. But in return, when I’ve got something that comes in and I really need it, I need priority.”

So yeah, maybe it costs me $435 to get a service done, and Joe’s Repair down the road might do it for $285. But the deal is—I’m not going to take my gravy work to the cheaper guy, because tomorrow I might really need that truck, and that $150 I saved will cost me more in the long run. So we’ve fostered that relationship.

That shop has four guys, and they all know our equipment and what we do. For me, it’s a simple text or quick call—“Hey, this truck’s coming in on the hook,” or “One of the guys is dropping this off.” They know how to prioritize our stuff.

The guys in the south? They’ve got the same mechanic showing up consistently, doing PMs and whatever needs done. There are companies with their own in-house mechanics and shops too. But honestly, my thought process is: the newer these trucks get, the more specialized the components become. That makes it harder to employ and cost-effectively keep an in-house mechanic for this newer equipment.

All the proprietary software, all the diagnostic tools—it’s a lot. It’s going to be tough for your on-the-floor guy to do more than basic oil changes or PMs. So for me, I focus on forming tight relationships that flow. And it’s worked very, very well for us.

Down south, yep, they come right to the yard. They’ve got more space, even a bay where the mechanic can work. If it’s something major, they take it back to their shop or we tow it.

You still need to consider having a spare truck sitting there when something happens. And if you’ve got to take a newer truck into a dealership? You better have a tight relationship with that dealer and your sales rep, because otherwise it’s going to be a tough ride.

I’ve learned that firsthand—and Scott, no offense—you can scold me for this. But the days of just calling Scott and saying, “Hey, I need an F-600, here’s the specs,” don’t work for me anymore. We had a truck we really relied on. Took it in under warranty, and three or four days later it was still just sitting there.

“You’re on the list. You didn’t buy it from us.” That hurt. So now I buy my cab and chassis locally. If I want FlowMark to build the tank, I spec it and send them the cab and chassis. Because when Chris has a problem, that local dealer is going to take care of me—they want to sell me two more trucks next year.

Maintenance programs and software? There’s a lot of options and a lot of directions you can go. It depends on how your business is structured and what you’re trying to accomplish.

If someone’s running toilets, dumpsters, septic—they may be big enough for a full-time mechanic, and maybe that’s the most economical route. But for us, this relationship model works. We’ve kept it stable and tight, and it’s really paid off.

Matt A: Thanks for sharing your perspective, Chris. Scott, what’s your take? I’m sure FlowMark has a stance on how you work with customers when it comes to maintenance and warranties and all that good stuff.

Scott: We’ve grown exponentially in the last three years—really in the last two since we moved into our new facility. We’ve expanded a lot, but at the end of the day, customer service is still the most important thing. It’s all about relationships. The person who’s going to take care of you from start to finish, and everything in between.

Generally, you’ll have your sales rep as your main point of contact—that’s the person you build your relationship with. I’ve got people I’ve sold trucks to for seven years, and now I’m getting invited to their kids’ birthdays or even couples’ trips. We’ve built that trust.

And they know if they need something from Massport, I’m the one calling John Gilbert to make it happen. Now if it’s a dealer issue, yeah, sometimes my hands are tied. I’ll try calling a dealership in California I’ve never dealt with, and I might not even get anyone on the phone. So what Chris said about building a relationship with your local dealer? He’s spot on.

When trucks go down, we’re the ones helping figure it out—and some dealerships are just not cooperative. The ones we buy chassis from, though? They’re great. But even then, they can only do so much. They’re just one step in the chain, and they’ve got to call someone else.

So yeah, build those relationships. Lean on your vendors—for pumps, toilets, trucks, dealerships, everything. That ties back to our earlier point about growth. When customers grow, those relationships become even more important.

And like Chris said, when you’ve got to ask someone for a favor, for something above and beyond? If you’ve built that relationship, they’ll do it. This industry is special that way. A lot of people in it treat each other like family—even competitors. A handshake deal still means something in this space. Word of mouth and reputation carry a lot of weight.

It’s a great industry to be in. And those relationships? They’re the key to making everything successful—whether it’s your business, ours, or the whole community.

Matt A: Love that. Chris, you and I have talked about this before, but it’d be great to share with the audience—everyone’s going to handle this differently—but how long do you guys keep your trucks? Is it based on hours, miles, or something else?

Chris: Right now, pretty much, we run them until it’s too costly to keep them going. We’ve started spending a little more money upfront when we build or buy a tank body. I might choose to go with stainless or aluminum—it depends on what the truck’s being used for. That extra cost upfront can pay off because then I can reuse that same tank body on two or three different chassis.

So if I gave Scott an extra 10 grand for a stainless body, and I can use it on three trucks before it’s toast, it ends up costing me just about $3,000 per chassis. Not bad.

In a perfect world? I’d love to run a truck to 150,000 miles, then dump it and have a brand-new one dropped off. But that’s not how it works for most companies.

We’re probably a little more fortunate than some. The way we’re structured, we’re able to purchase new trucks, spec our own chassis, and do a lot of the install and maintenance work in-house. That saves us a lot.

Now, there are folks on the other side of the spectrum—they’ll run their truck until it absolutely can’t go anymore. Or maybe they’re just not profitable enough to afford newer equipment. So they don’t have a choice.

Others might have a set timeline—like they rotate trucks out after a certain number of years or miles. For us, we look at what makes sense on paper and what the truck’s actually doing. For example, a truck on a produce route or working a military base won’t wear the same as a daily city route truck. One’s getting beat to death, the other isn’t.

So it really depends on how the truck’s used. That determines its lifespan for us.

Matt A: Love that. Chris, you and I have talked about this before, but it’d be great to share with the audience—everyone’s going to handle this differently—but how long do you guys keep your trucks? Is it based on hours, miles, or something else?

Chris: Right now, pretty much, we run them until it’s too costly to keep them going. We’ve started spending a little more money upfront when I build or buy a tank body. I might choose to go with stainless or aluminum—it depends on what the truck’s being used for. That extra cost upfront can pay off because I can reuse that same tank body on two or three different chassis.

So if I gave Scott an extra 10 grand for a stainless body and I can use it on three trucks before it’s toast, then it’s only costing me about $3,000 per chassis—not bad.

In a perfect world, I’d run a truck to 150,000 miles and then just swap it out for a brand-new one. But unfortunately, it doesn’t work like that for most companies.

We’re a little more fortunate than others because of how we’re structured. We can purchase new trucks, spec our own chassis, and do a lot of the work in-house, which saves us money. But there are folks who run trucks until they can’t anymore, or who aren’t profitable enough to even consider buying new—so they don’t really have a choice.

Some companies rotate out trucks based on years or mileage. For us, it’s what makes sense financially and how the truck’s actually being used. If it’s running military routes or light-duty routes, it’s going to last longer than a truck that’s pounding pavement every day on dense city routes. So use case matters a lot.

Matt A: I’ve never heard people talk about the life of their toilets—and obviously, it’s dependent on if you’re doing construction or events and you’ll have a different mix—but what’s your general philosophy, Chris, about the life of a toilet?

Chris: The life of a toilet really depends on your service area and your clientele. For us, we try to run them until they start showing some age—then we roll them from special events into construction.

Now, in one of our southern areas, we actually use brand-new toilets for construction. Toilets used in southern states just don’t last as long. That extreme heat and constant sun? It wears down the plastic fast. So their longevity isn’t what we get up north.

Our philosophy is: if the unit’s still in good shape, we find a home for it. Once it’s done with special events or high-end rentals, we look at where it fits best next. Military sites? Homeless encampments? We match it to the right use case.

Bottom line: just like trucks, you want to get your ROI. Use it as long as you can and make the most of the investment.

Learn more about how to better maximize your fleet efficiency with our free playbook for PROs here!

Matt A: So we’re recording this in April 2025—and you can’t turn on the news without hearing the word “tariff.” Let’s dive into that a bit. Scott, with the current and potential future tariffs, how could changes in steel and material pricing affect the cost of purchasing trucks?

Scott: It can definitely have a big impact. The first people calling us were chassis suppliers—Ford, RAM, International, Kenworth, Peterbilt—they all source parts from all over: Canada, Mexico, you name it.

The suppliers are already adding potential charges to build sheets for trucks being built this summer. And they’re warning us those fees could increase again in June or later in the year. After what happened during COVID, I think everyone’s being more cautious now—no one wants to be caught off guard again.

That said, I think some people are jumping the gun a little too early. But yeah, the fees are real. And we’re already seeing them pop up in quotes.

As for our steel and raw materials? Most of it is sourced right here in the U.S., so the impact’s been minimal on that end. We’re not passing along any major cost increases to customers right now.

If a truck quote might be affected, we’re clear about that upfront. But I think what happens next really depends on what the suppliers decide to do. If they push the tariffs hard, things could get pricey fast.

We’ve talked to every supplier we deal with—chassis, parts, pumps—you name it. And so far, any cost increases have been minor, and we haven’t passed them down. But if things escalate, we’ll see.

Matt A: If prices do go up, do you think that’ll push more people into the used market?

Scott: Honestly, I don’t think so. During COVID, used equipment values skyrocketed—mostly because you couldn’t get new trucks. Lead times were insane, orders were backed up, and shortages were everywhere.

Good used equipment is always valuable, but you also never really know what you’re getting. That’s the catch.

What usually drives people to the used market is lead time. And now, money’s expensive to borrow. Interest rates are up—7s, 8s, sometimes higher depending on your situation.

Now, a year or so ago? Rates were super low. That pushed people to buy new because it was basically house money. But now, people are pausing.

There will always be a used market. But new truck prices have leveled out a bit—they’re not climbing like they were the last few years. Even with the tariffs looming, I don’t think it’ll cause a big shift to used just yet.

Matt A: Chris, from the operator’s perspective—have you guys felt anything yet from these tariffs?

Chris: Not really. We’ve just done new contracts for toilet paper and hand sanitizer, and of course we include a “what-if” clause, but nothing’s come back yet with major changes.

We haven’t seen any big add-ons to pricing due to tariffs yet. So far, so good.

Matt A: That’s good to hear. Let’s hope it stays that way.

I think this is a good place to wrap things up. Chris, Scott—thank you both so much for joining today and sharing your expertise.

To everyone listening, thanks for tuning in. We’ll catch you on the next episode of Toilet Talk.

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